I am sad and dismayed to learn that the session of Kirk of the Hills Church in Tulsa has voted to leave the PCUSA and affiliate with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Kirk of the Hills is one of the largest churches in our Synod, having over 2,600 members.
Both pastors renounced the jurisdiction of the PCUSA. A congregational meeting has been called for August 30 to discuss this action.
Tom Gray, senior pastor of the church, explains the move on his blog today, in a post titled "Serious News". This is serious news, indeed. Gray said, " The session decided that, especially in response to the recently-revealed legal plans of the PCUSA, it was time to take decisive action." So it appears that the release of Advisory Opinion # 19 by the PCUSA Stated Clerk's office created concern about pre-emptive action by the denomination and precipitated this decision.
I don't know whether or not part of the congregation will contest this decision. It's not clear from this post whether the church will seek to be dismissed with its property, because Tom Gray says the action is taken independent of whatever happens with the property. I don't know whether the powers-that-be in Louisville were planning action against Kirk of the Hills, and if they were, whether they had grounds for it. I just know I am very sorry to see Kirk of the Hills leave the PCUSA.
There is a lot at stake in this situation and Presbyterians across the country will be carefully watching the response of the Presbytery of Eastern Oklahoma, the Synod of the Sun, and the Stated Clerk's office to this announcement.
(Credit to Presbyweb, which was the first with this information. It is a subscription website, but you can sign up for a month free trial subscription with no strings attached--then you decide the amount of your donation. It's well worth it.)
Without reading any of the details, my initial reaction is to be very sorry about this. I have been sitting here pondering whether, if the entire situation were reversed, my church might be one of the ones considering a pullout. (I have no idea, and would not pretend to have a sense of congregational or session inclinations on that nonexistent question.) When I look at it that way, it is easy enough to understand a congregation's outrage and frustration. But when I try to look at it from the fundamental and foundational need for Christ's people to find reconciliation among ourselves even and especially where we are most in disagreement, I see this church's movement as a sad and discouraging one.
ReplyDeleteDoes a congregation have the right to align itself with who it wishes?
ReplyDeleteKirk of the Hills was the meeting place for the last meeting of New Wineskins. The New Wineskins draft constitution is dated June, 2006. They have formed committes to draft a Leadership Manual, a Manual for Discipline and a Manual for Worship. Here is the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.newwineconvo.com/workgroup.html
working groups
Elaine
Oklahoma
Elaine
Oklahoma
I was at Kirk for the NWSA meeting. The Kirk folks were the greatest. Tom hinted that they were having difficulties with the presbytery.
ReplyDeleteI just got off the phone with a local pastor from another denomination. He asked me, "Can't you just ignore the ordinations of sexually active gays?" I told him that we are ordained for the entire church--not just the local church.
It seems to me that the leadership at Kirk realizes that they are not leaving the PCUSA--the PCUSA has left them. I know that there are those who do not believe that the PUP report allows sexually active LGBT persons to be ordained. The church courts will ultimately decide the issue. The reality is that churches and presbyteries are going to be ordaining those folks. The leadership at Kirk is taking a couragious stand (and a biblical one at that). I am sad that they are leaving at this time. God's blessings and protection be with them.
Pastor Lance
http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/
Backwoods,
ReplyDeleteA church can leave and affiliate with whomever they choose, but there are consequences--mostly having to do with property.
If a church leaves the PCUSA, the presbytery may allow them to retain their property if they join another reformed denomination--like the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Usually the church buys out the presbytery's "trust" interest in its property at a price either set by presbytery or negotiated with presbytery.
But the presbytery doesn't have to permit this. If it decides there is a viable group in the congregation that wants to remain in the PCUSA, then it can recognize them and they keep the property.
I found it interesting that the same day that Kirk of the Hills decided it could no longer walk with the PC(USA) in its present form, the Office of the General Assembly released what appears to be a 'press release' dated the 16th talking up the fact the courts in California upheld the position of the PC(USA) on who controls the church property.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a lawyer, but aren't real estate and property law fairly uniform across the 50 states ?? Does not bode well for those congregations that may want to leave, but have a few dissenters from that position.
RC,
ReplyDeleteReal estate and property law can differ significantly across the country. States can have unique interpretations or statutes that pertain to these matters.
I am not presb. but this is sad.
ReplyDeleteI had hoped this wouldn't happen.
ReplyDeleteJesus said, "If you try to keep your life for yourself, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for me, you will find true life. And how do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose or forfeit your own soul in the process?" (Luke 9:24,25) What a blessing for Kirk of the Hills to be moving to be free from the dead, oppressive hierarchy of the PC(USA) power structure. I'm sure they look forward to focusing their energies entirely on building up the Church and reaching a lost world for Jesus, instead of trying to reform "christians" who have already rejected the validity of the Gospel. For this they are even willing to take the risk of losing the property that they themselves paid for.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the better thing would have been for the evangelicals in the PC(USA) to have taken the very difficult steps to cleanse the denomination from those who no longer believe...and to have done that decades ago. But those who no longer believe are the ones who, in many cases, sought power in denominational structures because hands-on ministry had no meaning for them. These foxes are now in charge of the chicken coop and don't want any birds (particularly the large ones like Kirk of the Hills) to escape. I'm sure they'll try to make a bloody example of Kirk to scare the rest of the hens into submission. May the Lord bless Kirk and provide them with everything they need as they seek to be faithful.
Those of you who argue that Kirk is not following the BoO, give me a break! The PC(USA)'s unbiblical rulers only pull out the constitution to bolster their own arguments, but conveniently ignore it (or interpret it according to "conscience") when they want to break it...something they have done over and over and over again for decades without much interference from the complacent evangelicals. Those who stay in the PC(USA) as it slides over the cliff will get what they deserve. (I'm reminded of the German evangelicals who--unlike Bonhoeffer--decided to "work with" the Nazi government instead of oppose it. What has happened to courage?) Those who leave now will find, albeit on a rocky path fraught with persecution, what their hearts have longed for.
I agree with much of what Jon Thomasson said. It IS scriptural for Kirk to do what it has done in leaving IF it has indeed first confronted presbytery, had no satisfactory response, THEN confronted whatever's above presbytery, (is that Synod?), then gone to the next, all according to Paul and Jesus' instructions on how we are to judge each other and act on sinful behavior of fellow Christians. I read scripture as advising prayerful response rather than reaction. If Kirk has not gone through these steps, with the majority of the congregation's support, then I have to say its' leaving is premature. And on the other hand, God speaks very clearly to some of us and I can't rule that out either. I feel that most of us can yet wait and prayerfully see.
ReplyDeleteI've had a similar personal experience in a very micro way, and was sent back to scripture for guidance 'cause my pastors had certainly nothing to offer. I'm now in a state of attending a different church for worship. But I still do NOT leave my original church because I feel there is still time and space for God to work a miracle.
So my view is that I pray for Kirk and that its' path be with and of God's guidance and blessing. And I pray for those of us left in our allegedly "sullied" structure of PCUSA who need to find God's peace in and through all this. I'm going to wait it out a bit.