Here is a great sermon on the subject from Max Lucado, popular Methodist preacher and writer in San Antonio. Thanks to my brother, W, for passing it on.
Apropos of nothing, but I was thinking about you today--Jack Haberer and Barbara Wheeler from the PUP task force presented and did Q&A at our presbytery today. They both did a wonderful job. I think they have set the bar high for a more excellent way for us to be with one another. Whether the church can rise to the challenge remains to be seen.
I'm curious how you've been reflecting on the report in these weeks since it came out. I haven't read much from other of the extreme flanks of the church. Personally, I feel more positively about it than I did before, mainly because these people just ooze integrity.
We heard Jack (who I know from our presbytery) and Barbara a few months ago at a presbytery meeting. This was before the drafts had been written, so the presentation concentrated on the process that the PUP was using to come to their conclusions. It would be interesting to hear Jack and Barbara discuss the final report.
I agree that those who were part of the PUP report were people of integrity and good will who tried very hard to successfuly complete their task. I admire them for that. Their recommendations reflect the sharply divided and deeply held views of our denomination.
But as I read the news on presbyweb I see that already 8 presbyteries have endorsed overtures to change the Book of Order. I assume that more will follow and we will have a big battle at GA 2006 followed by another round of presbytery votes.
I fear that the PUP report is already irrelevant--which is really a shame because I think we should give their recommendations a chance.
I hope that what will happen is similar to what happened a few years ago during the Lordship of Christ fracas. (I was on the Confessions and Christology committee that year as a TSAD.) People brought all these overtures, stacks of them, all slightly different (many seemed wildly Arminian, not very reformed to me, but that's a topic for another time). Meanwhile, Theology and Worship had drafted the document, Hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. Everyone was gearing for a fight, but when it came to it, the committee decided to adopt the document and to use that action to answer/address all of those overtures (in effect saying "we've dealt with that").
The PUP report specifically calls on the GA not to take action on G-6.0106b either way (you know you're a polity wonk when you can quote chapter and verse! lol). So I suspect (pray?) that if the GA committee (and then the plenary) adopts the PUP recommendations en masse, that those recommendations will answer those overtures in the same way our adoption of Hope in the LJC did, in effect saying, "Sorry, not gonna do it your way. We're handling it differently."
I think for the middle of the church (and by middle I mean those of us who may have deep convictions about these decisive issues yet feel that we need to stick together), the recommendations in the report could be a breath of fresh air and, indeed, create a climate in which we can be the church together in a way that we never have before. What will sink the whole enterprise is this: one of the extreme flanks decides not to respect the process, they fire a shot off the port bow, and the other side says, "That's it. We tried a third way, but they aren't playing by the rules, so why should we? Warfare it is."
Are these 8 overtures just such a shot off the port bow? I pray not. They would have had to begin working those through the system before PUP came out, and personally, I think GA is gonna shut them down pronto by adopting the recommendations of the report. If still more overtures come out now, *after* the report has been issued (that is, in flagrant violation of the spirit PUP is trying to create), well, I will be deeply disappointed in my brothers and sisters on the left.
Thanks for your "insider report" on the Lordship of Christ controversy and how it might relate to how the 2006 GA can handle the PUP report and these overtures. That really encourages me.
I went back and checked the dates of the overtures. Two of them were passed AFTER the PUP report was published. Both the Witherspoon Society and More Light websites indicate those two groups are indeed encouraging more overtures like this.
However both the Covenant Network and the Presbyterian Coalition sites indicate that while each side has reservations or discontent with parts of the report they are asking their partisans to pray, study and cooperate with the spirit of the report.
I am encouraged by your experienced view that the GA will shut these renegade overtures down by adopting the PUP. I've never been to GA and only know what I can find to read about it!
Well, we will see won't we! From our lips to God's ear!
Barbara Wheeler shared a great quote today from Amos Oz (sp?), an Israeli author. He says that there are only two ways to end a serious play. The first way is Shakespeare's way--one side victorious, and their opponents' dead bodies littering the stage. The other is Chekhov's way--everyone still alive, but slightly disappointed.
LOL
The PUP report is Chekhov all the way.
Interestingly, they also said that some of the more "progressive" provisions of the report were actually suggested by conservative members of the task force, and vice versa. That speaks to the level of community that was able to be built, they felt--that even in the midst of disagreements both "sides" were able to say "You are a fellow Christian, seeking to be faithful, and I hear you and what you hold dear and wish to honor where you are." Wow. Powerful.
Can you tell I've wanted to process this with someone? :-)
7 comments:
Apropos of nothing, but I was thinking about you today--Jack Haberer and Barbara Wheeler from the PUP task force presented and did Q&A at our presbytery today. They both did a wonderful job. I think they have set the bar high for a more excellent way for us to be with one another. Whether the church can rise to the challenge remains to be seen.
I'm curious how you've been reflecting on the report in these weeks since it came out. I haven't read much from other of the extreme flanks of the church. Personally, I feel more positively about it than I did before, mainly because these people just ooze integrity.
~applaudes~ I loved this.
RM:
We heard Jack (who I know from our presbytery) and Barbara a few months ago at a presbytery meeting. This was before the drafts had been written, so the presentation concentrated on the process that the PUP was using to come to their conclusions. It would be interesting to hear Jack and Barbara discuss the final report.
I agree that those who were part of the PUP report were people of integrity and good will who tried very hard to successfuly complete their task. I admire them for that. Their recommendations reflect the sharply divided and deeply held views of our denomination.
But as I read the news on presbyweb I see that already 8 presbyteries have endorsed overtures to change the Book of Order. I assume that more will follow and we will have a big battle at GA 2006 followed by another round of presbytery votes.
I fear that the PUP report is already irrelevant--which is really a shame because I think we should give their recommendations a chance.
Sorry this became long!
I hope that what will happen is similar to what happened a few years ago during the Lordship of Christ fracas. (I was on the Confessions and Christology committee that year as a TSAD.) People brought all these overtures, stacks of them, all slightly different (many seemed wildly Arminian, not very reformed to me, but that's a topic for another time). Meanwhile, Theology and Worship had drafted the document, Hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. Everyone was gearing for a fight, but when it came to it, the committee decided to adopt the document and to use that action to answer/address all of those overtures (in effect saying "we've dealt with that").
The PUP report specifically calls on the GA not to take action on G-6.0106b either way (you know you're a polity wonk when you can quote chapter and verse! lol). So I suspect (pray?) that if the GA committee (and then the plenary) adopts the PUP recommendations en masse, that those recommendations will answer those overtures in the same way our adoption of Hope in the LJC did, in effect saying, "Sorry, not gonna do it your way. We're handling it differently."
I think for the middle of the church (and by middle I mean those of us who may have deep convictions about these decisive issues yet feel that we need to stick together), the recommendations in the report could be a breath of fresh air and, indeed, create a climate in which we can be the church together in a way that we never have before. What will sink the whole enterprise is this: one of the extreme flanks decides not to respect the process, they fire a shot off the port bow, and the other side says, "That's it. We tried a third way, but they aren't playing by the rules, so why should we? Warfare it is."
Are these 8 overtures just such a shot off the port bow? I pray not. They would have had to begin working those through the system before PUP came out, and personally, I think GA is gonna shut them down pronto by adopting the recommendations of the report. If still more overtures come out now, *after* the report has been issued (that is, in flagrant violation of the spirit PUP is trying to create), well, I will be deeply disappointed in my brothers and sisters on the left.
Thanks for your "insider report" on the Lordship of Christ controversy and how it might relate to how the 2006 GA can handle the PUP report and these overtures. That really encourages me.
I went back and checked the dates of the overtures. Two of them were passed AFTER the PUP report was published. Both the Witherspoon Society and More Light websites indicate those two groups are indeed encouraging more overtures like this.
However both the Covenant Network and the Presbyterian Coalition sites indicate that while each side has reservations or discontent with parts of the report they are asking their partisans to pray, study and cooperate with the spirit of the report.
I am encouraged by your experienced view that the GA will shut these renegade overtures down by adopting the PUP. I've never been to GA and only know what I can find to read about it!
Well, we will see won't we! From our lips to God's ear!
Barbara Wheeler shared a great quote today from Amos Oz (sp?), an Israeli author. He says that there are only two ways to end a serious play. The first way is Shakespeare's way--one side victorious, and their opponents' dead bodies littering the stage. The other is Chekhov's way--everyone still alive, but slightly disappointed.
LOL
The PUP report is Chekhov all the way.
Interestingly, they also said that some of the more "progressive" provisions of the report were actually suggested by conservative members of the task force, and vice versa. That speaks to the level of community that was able to be built, they felt--that even in the midst of disagreements both "sides" were able to say "You are a fellow Christian, seeking to be faithful, and I hear you and what you hold dear and wish to honor where you are." Wow. Powerful.
Can you tell I've wanted to process this with someone? :-)
I love the Chekov analogy. I also wish we could have an in-depth discussion of all this in person. Still, it's great to exchange concerns with you.
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