This is turning out to be a very busy blogging week for your humble correspondent. The Mission Presbytery Committee charged with investigating the admission to church membership of atheist Robert Jensen by St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Austin, Texas has completed its work and filed its report which you can read here in full. My thanks to Classical Presbyterian for the tip.
The bottom line is that the committee recommends that Mission Presbytery:
1) Declare that the reception of Robert Jensen into active membership was “irregular”and thus void.
2) Direct the St. Andrew’s session to move Robert Jensen to the “Baptized” Role. (Jensen was apparently baptised in a Presbyterian Church as a youngster.)
3) Direct the session of St. Andrew’s to work with representatives of COM to create a constitutionally appropriate process for receiving members.
4) Encourage the session of St. Andrew’s, if it so chooses, to re-examine Robert Jensen, if he so desires, according to the process developed by the session and representatives of COM.
The investigation contained several jaw-dropping findings, including:
-- Robert Jensen PREACHED at this church.
QG: What the @#$!!
-- The church's bulletin contains the following statement:
QG: So St. Andrews is Progressive rather than Christian?“We are an inclusive, progressive church. As an affiliate of the Center for Progressive Christianity, we define Progressive Christians as ones who.....Invite all people to participate in our community and worship life without insisting that they become like us in order to be acceptable; including but not limited to: believers and agnostics, conventional Christians and questioning skeptics, women and men, those of all sexual orientations and gender identities, those of all races and cultures, those of all classes and abilities, those who hope for a better world and those who have lost hope.”
-- One of the session members told the investigators that the question asked prospective new members is "Are you able in your own way to affirm Christ is central to your life?" and added "We recognize that everyone is on a different path."
QG: Do you really think this is a statement of belief in Christ as your Lord and Savior?
--Another said, " We don't use the word 'Lord', we don't believe in that. We adopted a policy five or six years ago that we use inclusive language. We don't recite creeds."
QG: Do you really think this is a statement of belief in Christ as your Lord and Savior?
--Another said, " We don't use the word 'Lord', we don't believe in that. We adopted a policy five or six years ago that we use inclusive language. We don't recite creeds."
QG: Oh, pardon poor benighted me--you don't use the word "Lord", do you? And you want to be a Presbyterian church, which is a denomination that emphasizes the importance of reciting creeds and confessions in worship--WHY?
-- Jensen is quoted as saying: "I do not believe in God as an external agent. If you ask me if I believe in God as a mystery like the sun coming up every morning is a mystery, then I believe in God."
QG: ~singing~ "I believe that for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows, I believe that in the darkest night, a candle glows..."
I get it! You believe in Frank Sinatra! So change the name of the church to St. Sinatra's Center for Progressive Community Activists and then have the integrity to withdraw from the PCUSA so you can be the progressive, non-creedal, inclusive, community of different paths that you want to be, without the intrusion of the presbytery that wants to make you follow the Book of Order.
I get it! You believe in Frank Sinatra! So change the name of the church to St. Sinatra's Center for Progressive Community Activists and then have the integrity to withdraw from the PCUSA so you can be the progressive, non-creedal, inclusive, community of different paths that you want to be, without the intrusion of the presbytery that wants to make you follow the Book of Order.
15 comments:
Wow, QG!
They ought to send you in to ask the questions!!!
You rock, QG!
As QG's pastor, she and I have had an ongoing dialogue about the heretical soap opera being played out in Mission Presbytery. I am particularly struck by Yanbu-yob's observation that when a pastor and/or the church drifts away from the truth they cannot even recognize their error. Reading the comments from the members of St. Andrews church, I would say that Mr. Rigby has a cult rather than a congregation.
Jerry Hurst
Presbyterian pastor
Ok, so what would the guy preach on?
Second, I thought inclusive language meant nongender. When did Lord become exclusive language?
Greg:
"Jesus is Lord" is still the most offensive of all the Christian creeds.
Stating Jesus is Lord inconviences our idolatries. If Jesus is the _exclusive_ Lord, then we can't be _inclusive_ about what we want to worship. So we give up the Lordship of Christ for, in this case, politcal ideology.
How long will we go on limping about between two opinions?
Well-technically "Lord" is a male term: think England where nobles are Lord and Lady. In Spanish the word for "lord" is Senor, (same as Mister), in German it is Herr, (also same as Mr.) You get the idea. Folks who advocate inclusive language often use terms like "Sovereign One" "Ruler of All" to convey the same idea in more gender neutral language. But St. A's seems not to have gone that route . . .
whoa! i'm still shaking my head over this one!
Sounds like the First Existentialist Congregation in Atlanta. They must be getting some great benefits from the PCUSA if they are maintaining affiliation.
Hey, at least the Progressive Chrisitianity movement in the United States hasn't removed the word "Christ" from their statement of beliefs. They apparently have an Eight Point outline of what they believe in, or not. You can find them here...
http://www.tcpc.org/about/8points.cfm
The Canadian version of Progressive Christianity has removed any reference to Jesus or to Christ. Ya. And they want to keep calling themselves Christian!!! What the *^%^@??
I asked one of the Canadian leaders of this pseudo-sect what happened to Christ in their Christianity and she replied (with a straight face) "Oh, there's no room for Christ in Progressive Christianity."
I think it is time to stop letting these people enjoy the privilege of membership in mainstream denominations.
Oops. I meant to say that the US group hadn't removed the word "Jesus" from the 8 points. Apparently the word Christ was never in the running....
Actually, I've found that "progressive"is about as broad a term as "evangelical". Lots of different groups and individuals describe themselves as "progressive christians" but they don't all mean the same thing by it.
Grace, I read the "listening report". Unbelievable.
And I thought we United Methodist were doing some weird things in terms of being open-minded, open-doors, open hearts. This is so sad as well. I will read the report later.
Oy. Of course, the heart of the matter is the question of WHY they are doing this. What do they hope to accomplish? Will they end up with a church full of people who are just like Jensen? 'Twould be a rather strange place to worship the ...wait a minute...what or who would they worship? Sounds a tad Unitarian to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you're going to be that strenuously anti-credal and so wishy-washy on the issue of Christ, then don't take the name of a Christ-centered denomination. Just my $.02...
Friends,
As a minister member of Mission Presbytery, let me assure you that we will try to do something about this.
But, FYI, we will have to do it from the floor of the presbytery meeting this Friday, as the COM will do nothing more than 'listen' and continue letting this church defy our denomination's constitution.
Pray for us all this Friday!
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